Thruster/Dive Plane position

Anything to do with Propulsion.
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Unorthodox
Posts: 45
Joined: Jul 5th, 2011, 2:36 pm

Thruster/Dive Plane position

Post by Unorthodox »

First Post :mrgreen:

So Im working on a interesting concept AUV/ROV that is meant for long range endurance trips trying to be as energy efficient as possible. In order to do this, the pressure hull made of 4" PVC will be enclosed in a fiberglass outer hull with an ideal hydrodynamic shape using a quarter length elliptical nose, and tapered hull seven times as long as the width. This configuration is supposed to be most quiet and least drag inducing.

Included is a rough illustration (I need to scan my paper drawings, this is just MS paint) showing a general layout, the blue rectangle is space available for a 4" pressure hull inside the general hull shape.

At the rear is a ducted propeller I plan to make out of 6" PVC with a slip coupler glued inside to create a .5" thick ring that I intend to sand down like a kort nozzle. The circle indicates a swivel, without giving an elaborate explanation imagine the rear portion behind the ball and including the nozzle is directional giving vectored thrust.

The intersecting red lines indicate the largest part of the outer hull and the only cylindrical portion of the hull that is not curved or tapered. I planned to try and put the center of gravity at or near that point.

In order to reduce turbulence, I wanted to have the dive planes at the straitest part of the hull (where the red lines cross) but I am concerned that having the control surfaces in line with the center of gravity I will be losing allot of control since the COG wont be serving as a pivot for an outer torque exerted by the planes if they were forward in the nose more, or higher in a sail. What effect do any of you think it would have to have dive planes aligned with the COG?

Additionally I need some help sourcing a 5" propeller blade and matching it to a motor, guidance would be helpful. I am under the impression that a larger prop at lower rpms is the most efficient.

Im gradually putting together more drawings and I will put them up as I finish. I appreciate your feedback :D
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Seadragon
Posts: 40
Joined: Jun 25th, 2011, 4:00 pm

Re: Thruster/Dive Plane position

Post by Seadragon »

5" prop is no problem try the trolling motor prop. Have you considered having a stern plane and rudder setup aft of the screw on the shroud up and down and side to side. also you can try a trim system to change attitude in three axis system. I am working on an oil based trim system.

Dive planes could have a point of mission critical failure.

I think If you can find a 5 bladed or 4 bladed screw on low rpms you can get the lower power consumption.
Unorthodox
Posts: 45
Joined: Jul 5th, 2011, 2:36 pm

Re: Thruster/Dive Plane position

Post by Unorthodox »

I wanted to use a pair of piston tanks on either end of the pressure hull for ballast and trim with the fiberglass hull free flooding. I have your drawings for the oil based trim, but dont think I fully understand, the oil and water are in contact and you move the oil back and forth between the trim tanks in order to balance?
Tsilatipac
Posts: 7
Joined: Aug 3rd, 2011, 12:36 am

Re: Thruster/Dive Plane position

Post by Tsilatipac »

Interesting concept. For making decisions about CG and control stability, I would look at some of the model rocket data out there. If I recall correctly, you will want the center of gravity (CG) to be forward of the center of pressure (CP). The same should apply for your design. Putting the CP close behind the CG will make the rocket more maneuverable but less stable. Moving the CP far behind CG would make it more stable but possibly less maneuverable. Since you are looking for effeciency and long distance, I would opt for the latter. Close to neutrally buoyant would be good. I'd be interested to hear what others think.
Seadragon
Posts: 40
Joined: Jun 25th, 2011, 4:00 pm

Re: Thruster/Dive Plane position

Post by Seadragon »

Unorthodox wrote:I wanted to use a pair of piston tanks on either end of the pressure hull for ballast and trim with the fiberglass hull free flooding. I have your drawings for the oil based trim, but dont think I fully understand, the oil and water are in contact and you move the oil back and forth between the trim tanks in order to balance?
What I missed in the drawing was the piston assembly. Like a hydraulic cylinder. I put membrane in my drawing because I was thinking of a sliding barrier or balloon. with a piston would be the better way to go.

On the submarine it was easier as the trim system used water and air and pumps to move the water around.

the change in displacement is the key to trimming the submerged vehicle.
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