Auxiliary Power

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Unorthodox
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Joined: Jul 5th, 2011, 2:36 pm

Auxiliary Power

Post by Unorthodox »

Since my project is more of an AUV or batteries on board ROV I have been looking at ways to extend the range as long as possible, and then I stumbled on the start of a thread at RC Groups about the same thing.

Out of the 3 mentioned there, I take the kinetic and thermoelectric most seriously.

With kinetic generation though, I would think you could use ballast diving to free-wheel your thrusters to generate electricity, in this case though the more ideal your hydrodynamic shape and thruster placement is, the better. Imagine the glider AUV we have already seen with a propeller on the back spinning up with the dive and turning a motor in reverse generating electricity.

Thermoelectric is simple enough, and provided you can find a large enough heat disparity could work. If maybe your pressure hull electronics put out appreciable heat and the cold side was to the ambient seawater that would be alright.

Another option I came up with however, is very common in the real submarine world: diesel-electric! Using a RC Airplane diesel engine coupled to a brushless electric motor and fed from a compressed air cylinder with matching volume of fuel. The brushless motor would serve as the starter motor for the engine and then as an alternator while running. The whole package should easily fit inside a PVC Pipe, the engine being no more than two and a half inches tall and the motor of whatever diameter you matched it to. I would say use compressed air to feed the engine instead of a snorkel because with the smaller hull I think it would be easier to foul the intake, and for exhaust, provided a check valve in the line the engine should put out enough pressure to exhaust directly into the water at the surface. They also make purpose built alternator disks for RC planes that could be stacked on a shaft to generate power possibly more efficiently.


I just wanted to pick up the conversation on the topic I saw, long dead on another forum someplace more lively. Im interested to hear any of your thoughts. :D
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Rover
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Joined: Jul 18th, 2011, 10:23 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Auxiliary Power

Post by Rover »

Good luck. Report back to the forum if any of the suggestions worked. Hopefully, you will have enough heat from the ESC'c for your kinetic idea.

Jim
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SoakedinVancouver
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Joined: Dec 31st, 2010, 9:38 pm

Re: Auxiliary Power

Post by SoakedinVancouver »

Peltier device's (thermoelectric) efficiency is lousy, but probably good enough to generate enough power to activate a small packet transmitter to send data to shore when your AUV would surface. Yeah, i think it would have to be an AUV application to be of any practical use, and also forget about creating enough power to run but the smallest motor, never mind a motor with a propeller mounted on it!

This said, it would be interesting to use a copper pipe as the body of the ROV and then line the inside with Peltier devices, stacking a couple of sizes to increase the efficiency, and then have all the power switching transistors mounted on the hot sides... But you need power to get the heat required to create the... power. Which drowned first? The chicken or the egg? (Easy answer, the chicken. It needed air, and got crushed by the pressure first...)

The law of conservation of energy limits all these schemes to not much more than "battery-topper" power arrangement, or, like I said in the first paragraph, emergency signalling power back-up in case of tragic battery failure and yet re-surfacing.

But maybe I am lacking in imagination. But I did work with Peltiers, and with all their limitations, they do have their place "out there".
Unorthodox
Posts: 45
Joined: Jul 5th, 2011, 2:36 pm

Re: Auxiliary Power

Post by Unorthodox »

I found these for diesel-electric power and was fascinated... these guys are making "live diesel" train models using model engines turning brushless motors with respectable voltage (20v in one picture).

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10572 ... ey_/tm.htm
http://continental-garden-t.motionforum ... e-diesel-2

Whats id be interested in doing is supplying air from a compressed air canister (maybe just oxygen) which was the intended method used on the Fenian Ram submarine designed by John Holland and then exhausting into the sea. This cuts out a snorkel and the potential for fouling. The brushless motor would be used for starting the model diesel and then you would either run the diesel until the fuel was out and hopefully fully charge your battery or use the brushless motor to stall the diesel at full charge.

Thoughts?
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SoakedinVancouver
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Joined: Dec 31st, 2010, 9:38 pm

Re: Auxiliary Power

Post by SoakedinVancouver »

If your diesel runs out of air and starts sucking in whatever atmosphere is nearby, ie, inside your enclosure, you will be surprised at the power of vacuum when coupled with external depth pressure! (Hint: 3/8 curved aluminium hatch is no match...).

this said, a guy with The SubCommittee built a Typhoon R/C sub with a small fridge compressor for its ballast system, he would come to the surface and replenish the tanks using the compressor. The thrusters were electric though.
Unorthodox
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Joined: Jul 5th, 2011, 2:36 pm

Re: Auxiliary Power

Post by Unorthodox »

The plan is to run the engine off of a 12oz canister of compressed air regulated before the intake, so the atmosphere it has to pull from is limited to the canister. Additionally your dealing with an engine with a fraction of a cubic inch in displacement the vacuum cant be too strong
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SoakedinVancouver
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Re: Auxiliary Power

Post by SoakedinVancouver »

small displacement but high RPM.
Unorthodox
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Joined: Jul 5th, 2011, 2:36 pm

Re: Auxiliary Power

Post by Unorthodox »

true, but you could also use the brushless motor as an engine brake and stall it in the end, as it chokes itself out of oxygen and fuel you would apply a reverse torque on the shaft.
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