If you look sideways, it's an ROV sorta

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wildbill001
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Joined: Sep 22nd, 2015, 2:40 pm

If you look sideways, it's an ROV sorta

Post by wildbill001 »

So please bear with me here and if necessary, tell me to go elsewhere--you won't hurt my feelings.

While on a business trip I saw the movie Spare Parts (check it out if you haven't, not bad). This got me to thinking about a problem I've been trying to solve.

My pool cleaning robot, Polaris 9300 Sport, had one of two drive-motors freeze up. I think it might have also fried the electronics in the topside control box. I know this because I took it all apart. Figured I couldn't make it any worse. While watching the movie, it dawned on me that I may be able to treat this as an ROV! That is, have a hand-held controller to steer via the existing tether rather than spending anywhere from $600 to $1800 to repair or replace this beast.

The label on the existing control unit says it outputs 24vDC, max 3A. It has two drive-motors that are geared to turn the two front wheels (so it is front-wheel drive) as well as a flap-wheel (not sure what else to call it) which helps to loosen any dirt or algae on the pool gunite. The drive motors were made several years ago by a company called Crouzet. They are no longer made and because they were special order, they can't tell me what I might be able to substitute. All I have been able to find out is that they run at 4800rpm at 24vdc. There is a gear head that attaches to the motor body but I don't know what the final rpm ends up being.

So I have three problems to start with:
1) what kind of motor can I use to replace the existing ones?
2) Power. Thinking of picking up a 24V DC, 3-4A supply off ebay since it will be topside and not in the water.
3) Control. How or what do I need to control speed and direction, i.e., forward/reverse? Might also need the ability to have one of the drive-motors turn slower than the other so I can turn left/right.

Any pointers, suggestions would be really welcome.

Bill W

P.S., I can post pictures if anyone is interested.
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sthone
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Re: If you look sideways, it's an ROV sorta

Post by sthone »

What your trying to do sounds like and Remote operated Vehicle (ROV) so I think your in the right place. :D

I looked at the exploded diagram for that cleaner but it really doesn't show the motors only a motor block (looks like its still available though but not cheap) so some pictures would help. It looks like the front brush is driven off of a geared setup of off the drive motors though so that's good I can't tell if there is another motor for the prop though. The motors themselves might not be bad if you just fried the electronics and vice versa (electronics might be good if it's just the motors). If you removed the motors the easiest thing to do is to just hook them to a battery and see if they turn. A 12v battery (such as a tractor or car) should be enough to get them to spin at least for testing purposes.

I'm not sure what kind of "electronics these things have to drive around but you might be able to reuse the power supply part anyway.

If the electronics are fried though.... Depending on if the motors are brushed type or not it would probably be pretty easy to make a hand controller to drive it around uses some switched and relays. Post a few pictures of the motors if you can and we can go from there.

-Steve :sting:
wildbill001
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Joined: Sep 22nd, 2015, 2:40 pm

Re: If you look sideways, it's an ROV sorta

Post by wildbill001 »

Yes, the motorblock is still available but I hate to spend $$$$ to fix what may end up being a $10 motor. :x

I did apply 12v to the smaller motors. One worked, the other caused the power supply to trip the breaker. It also does not turn by hand. So I figure I'm going to need to replace both of the little motors. The larger motor has the prop on it and it is what draws the water into the body of the cleaner, thru a filter, and out the back. It works fine. I'm assuming it is brushed but don't know for sure.

I'll take some pics tonight and post so ya'll can see what I'm talking about. And yes, a hand-controller is exactly what I'm thinking of. I say the electronics are fried because when I opened up the topside unit, there was that distinct burnt-wire smell.

Thanks for the info and hopefully we can figure this out.
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sthone
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Re: If you look sideways, it's an ROV sorta

Post by sthone »

Yeah burnt smell usually isn't good... once you let the magic smoke out of electronics there's no putting in back in :lol: but check to see if there are any fuses in there I can't imagine there not being any in a system like that and it might be something that simple.

Does the other smaller motor turn by hand? If they have gear heads neither my turn by hand.

But yeah let see what the pictures look like..

-Steve :sting:
rossrov
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Re: If you look sideways, it's an ROV sorta

Post by rossrov »

The local hardware store had a similar device on the shelf. I was in the swimming pool aisle, looking for a filter housing that could be adapted to submersible use, on my way to the PVC plumbing fittings aisle :) . Was tempting to take the thing out of the box and have a better look.

Saw this on Ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drive-Motor-for ... 1615979102
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sthone
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Re: If you look sideways, it's an ROV sorta

Post by sthone »

From that eBay picture that almost looks like a generic 540 type motor just mounted to a PVC enclosed gear head... Can you take the motor off the gear head on yours? if so are there any markings on the actual motor?

If it's a 540 size I probably have a half dozen of them things laying around if you need one.

-Steve :sting:
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sthone
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Re: If you look sideways, it's an ROV sorta

Post by sthone »

Better yet if that eBay auction is what you have I 'm pretty sure this is the replacement motor. (Mabuchi RS-385PH-10280 DC Motor 24V, 150mA - for when that link is eventually dead.)

or just google "385ph-10280" and it's available elsewhere.



-Steve
wildbill001
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Re: If you look sideways, it's an ROV sorta

Post by wildbill001 »

Sorry I haven't gotten back ya'll--sometimes work just seems to get in the way of the important things in life. :lol:

Yes, that ebay listing is the motor and YES, I can unscrew the plastic gear-head. Gonna order the Mabuchi (or however it is spelled) as I am willing to risk $9 on a new motor.

FWIW, I did hook up 12v to the old one and it immediately blew the breaker on the power-supply I was using. It does turn by hand but you really have to work at it. The other drive motor, turns very, very easily.

I'll be sure to post what happens when it shows up next week. Now all I have to do it start remembering how to put the whole thing back together. :shock:

IF it turns out that the "master control" (a.k.a. the topside logic board and power-supply) is also shot, I may well need some advice on building some sort of joy-stick, hand-held contol. Actually, I may do that anyway as I don't trust the top-side unit very much either.

Thank You all !

Bill W
wildbill001
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Joined: Sep 22nd, 2015, 2:40 pm

Re: If you look sideways, it's an ROV sorta

Post by wildbill001 »

The replacement motor, Mabuchi RS-385PH-10280 DC Motor 24V, 150mA, is installed, finally! Getting the little gear off the old motor-shaft was a chore but finally got it and installed on the new motor. THANK YOU FOR THE ebay link to that little gem!.

Re-assembled everything, wired up the "mobile" unit to the top-side control, powered up and....You guessed it, nothing. Tore everything down and retested the power-supply. It tests good, 28V out. Disassembled the motor-block and tested each motor separately and they all test good. There is a little circuit board in the motor-block that appears to be some sort of control so I'm thinking that may have gotten fried when the original motor shorted out.

At this point, I'm ready to bypass the "brain" all together and manually drive the unit. I need 24v to the "suction" motor and that needs to run full speed. 24V to each drive motor (2--one on each side) and the ability to go forward, reversed, and, ideally, turn right/left (changing the rotation so one turns clockwise and the other turns counter-clockwise).

Any suggestions as to what I should use to accomplish this? Or is it unreasonable and I should just have a nice bonfire in the backyard?

Bill W

PS: Almost forgot, the tether between topside and underwater-unit has 3 wires. Don't know if that will make a difference in control suggestions.
Bindo
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Re: If you look sideways, it's an ROV sorta

Post by Bindo »

Hey Bill,

With 3 wires i think you'll struggle,

the best thing i can think of is on board power, and use the tether for comms.

if you were to have an on/off style motor configuration, running power from the shore, you'd need a minimum of 4 conductors and 2 power supplies (trust me, it's possible to have 3 motors running in separate directions over 4 conductors with 2 power supplies)

all depends on how much you wanna spend really
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